Playing with slugs?
Printed From: Kiwi Airgunners
Category: Target Shooting and Clubs
Forum Name: Target Shooting
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URL: www.kiwiairgunners.co.nz/forum_posts.asp?TID=822
Printed Date: 17 May 2024 at 1:21am
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Topic: Playing with slugs?
Posted By: RangerPete
Subject: Playing with slugs?
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 11:07pm
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I’ve recently been introduced to slugs and all the joys that they can bring. As well as the frustrations of trying to get them to go where you point them and group tightly. So I have been researching as much as I can, trying to learn from the experts and get a better understanding of these bewitching lumps of lead. My current understanding of slugs is that: 1- They like to go fast. Very fast. 2– Different length barrels supposedly like different weight slugs. Shorter barrel = lighter slug. 3- Shorter barrels prefer sudden bursts of higher pressure air, where as longer barrels can get away with lower pressured longer bursts of air. The barrel I have been playing with is 500mm long, and barrels of this length supposedly like slugs of 20gr to 25gr (in .22 cal). The reg is set at 125 bar, which is probably too low for a short barrell. I also think I’m not pushing them fast enough. Ive got a 30gr slug moving at about 750fps. I’ve tried slugs in 24gr, 25gr, 26gr, 28gr, 30gr and 35gr, from a mix of 3 different manufacturers, with varying degrees of success. Had a nice group from Javlin 26grainers, but I have yet to even get close to that elusive “one ragged hole” at 40m. Then while working through another batch of testing today at 25m, I shot a pretty decent 3 shot group, with a “slow” 30gr slug… 🫢😳 So there go all my theories out the window, and I’ll continue with further testing of this 30grainer Spyda slug.. The first 3 shots were beautiful, man I got excited! And then the 4th one went and really …… the pooch. Should have stopped at 3! Anyone else have any experience with getting slugs to perform, and any pearls of wisdom you may care to share…?  ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Replies:
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 8:13am
| Notice you haven't mentioned bore twist rate. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 2:26pm
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I have dabbled ever so slightly. I tried Spyda 25 grn deep hollow points through my impact. Used my pellet setting, and although they were going slow, out to 50 m they were slamming bunnies and bucking the wind. I continue with pellets as I have 12 tins, but am trying to get a tune that I can switch between slugs and pellets, but i'm in no hurry. Slugs are definitely fussier than pellets and as Kruz brought up twist rate comes into play.
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Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 5:53pm
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Kruza, I believe this 500mm barrel is a heavy/slug barrel, but I don’t know what the twist rate is. Paul, I have a tune for the hades 15.89gr, which is good, but not one ragged hole, and a tune for 30gr Javlin slugs, which I was using but I’m now out of those 😂 so only been using pellets for a while. But now I’m working on a tune for the 30gr spyda slugs. I’m going to turn the reg up a little till I get the slugs moving at around 900fps, then try fine tune them from there. The increased reg will change my pellet tune, so I’m goin got have to re tune the pellets, maybe turning the transfer port down. I’d like the pellets to be doing about 850fps Hoping to keep the flexibility of a good tune for a pellet or a slug. ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 9:38am
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Is that on a Dreamline? Does it have the extra plenum? This makes it easier to produce that extra power. Once you get a tune sorted, you could make the slug tune the highest setting on the hammer wheel. Hopefully one of the lower power settings will work for pellets. I have thought about making, or getting a power wheel from an Impact M3 because it has more indents for toggling between repeatable settings.
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Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 9:33pm
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Ja it is a dreamline, but this one has been pimped a bit. It’s got a (small) plenum, a 500cc bottle and as I mentioned above, a 500mm heavy slug liner. Initial testing with the 30gr spyda was promising, so I’m sure with an increase of reg pressure and some tweaking I can get them working nicely. Even as it is shooting now, if I can the pulsar zeroed tomorrow afternoon I might go out looking for some bunnies with those 30grainers tomorrow evening. ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2023 at 11:19pm
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Here’s an update on my slug testing… Spent an hour or two fiddeling around this evening with the 30gr spyda slugs. Goal no. 1 is to get them grouping tightly, as tight as possible. I don’t care what speed they are doing, as long as they group tightly. Goal no. 2 is once the slugs have been tuned to perfection, find an easy to set tune for the JSB hades 15.89gr pellets. I felt the slugs were going too slow out of my 500mm barrel. Reg was set at 125bar, so I slowly turned it up to 150bar for a little more Oomph! They recommend not going past 150bar. Unfortunately I couldn’t get my chrony to work indoors under the led lights, so I have no idea what speed they are doing out of my 500mm barrel. I’ve heard that short barrels need a short hare blast of air to get slugs moving, where as a long barrell can use a slower, more gently push of air (and probably get higher speeds too!) So I set the transfer port to 25/30, which I’m assuming is the largest aperture and will allow the most air into the barrel for a short hard burst of air. Once I had the reg at 150 bar and the transfer port wide open I started testing different hammer spring settings with 3 shot groups. I got the best results with hammer spring at 5.5 and MAX. Best group was a 9mm ctc 5 shot group at 25m. See pic. Unfortunately I don’t know how fast they are going. Tomorrow I will test the transfer port on .177/.22 setting with the various hammer spring settings. I don’t think it will be better then today, but u never know, I might just stumble apon a setting that gives one hole groups 😉 Then re zero the scopes for these new slugs and take it out for some rabbits. To achieve goal no. 2, I will keep the reg set at 150bar, and try the hades pellets with the transfer port on both the .177/.22 and the LOW settings. Hopefully somewhere in all of that I’ll find a tune that the hades like, and with a bit of luck it will be around the 850fps area. While setting the reg pressure today (I was using hades pellets for that because they cheaper then the slugs) I happened to stumble across a high power pellet tune that gave a 3 shot, one hole group at 25m. I don’t know what speed they are doing, but with one hole, I’ll take it! I took note of the settings and will come back on it when I get to doing the pellet tunes.  ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2023 at 8:23am
| That's good stuff Pete. Are you using the fine tune allen key on the HS adjustment as well, or just the set positions? |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2023 at 10:15pm
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Paul I was just using the 16 clicks on the hammer spring dial. The “micro” Allen key adjuster is maxed out and I left it there for now. This evening I tried a few more “tunes”. With the reg still set at 150 bar, I tried the transfer port on the .177/.22 setting and went through a few of the hammer spring settings. Logically the transfer port should be set at .25/.30 to get the most air through for the biggest push to get the 30gr slugs going as fast as possible out of a 500mm barrel, but I though while I’m into all this testing and tuning let me just see… And what do u know… at 150bar, TP at .177/.22, and hammer spring at max, a pretty tight 5 shot group at 25m.  ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2023 at 10:49pm
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You can further fine tune that by turning the micro allen screw. Turning down isn't bad. Turn it a touch, shoot a group, and do this in measurable stages, so you can return to the setting with best rsults. With these small adjustments you are really harmonic tuning. |
Posted By: kruzaroad
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2023 at 11:01pm
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This is great stuff. Lot of variation to play with. |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2023 at 12:13am
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Thanks Paul, I might give that a try next week. I’m for ever in search of that elusive “one ragged hole at 40m” 😉 ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2023 at 7:18pm
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In theory you will get good accuracy when you have a good ballance of the reg pressure and hammer tension for a particular pellet or slug. To find this you need a chrony and writing down speeds. With the TP on biggest calibre, hammer maxed out, shoot a couple, record speed, then move hammer down a notch, shoot and note speed, repeat through hammer settings. If you were to draw a graph with the speeds, the point where the speed dropped off dramatically is the ballance point. they say that 5% under this point is where you want to be. At this point no more power can be got from the reg and higher hammer tension will only waste air. Once you've found this point shoot groups adjusting the fine allen screw down to find a point where groups tighten. At this point you are really harmonic tuning. You should be getting one ragged hole at 25 m hopefully. You can also adjust the reg a very small amount if you don't find the magic tune. It means that to some extent you need to go through the above adjustments again. Don't think you have to increase power to find accuracy either. The sound of each shot should sound "sweet" when you have a good tune too. This means that just the right amount of air is being released to push the pellet without waste and the pellet speed will also be consistant. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2023 at 10:55pm
| If you have already, I found this video good on the theory of it. http://youtu.be/KDvuMwjwk9M" rel="nofollow - http://youtu.be/KDvuMwjwk9M |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2023 at 6:04pm
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Interesting video. I’d like to get into that next week if I get some time. The problem I have is the easiest place for me to test is in a 25m indoor tunnel, yeh I know, nice hey 😉 But my chrony won’t work in there because of the lighting 😞. I’ll find a way to make it work somehow, and will get into the fine tuning and keep chasing that one ragged hole. On a side note, I went out for a little pest control last night using the 30gr Spyda slugs. They certainly did the business on 8 rabbits, 3 possums and a pigeon. I have them zeroed about 10mm low at 25m, but don’t know what the drop is yet at 40, 50, etc, so had some frustrating misses at longer shots. But as soon as I can find somewhere to go shoot where I can get out to 50 or 60m I’ll get all the drops worked out. Slowly slowly catch a monkey 😉 ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: Pauly5
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2023 at 6:11pm
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You could use something like chairgun to get an idea of poi. You will burn through air and pellets doing it.
I am guessing, but if your close zero is 25, is suspect you will have holdover at 50 m. I think my close zero is about 15m and second zero around 50 m. But scope height will make a big difference. |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2023 at 7:35pm
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Never tried Chairgun, but I think it will be worth looking into. Is it a website or an app? ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: chopsuey
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2023 at 8:40pm
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Hay guys Slugs don't come into there own until approx 60/70/80m +.. Depending what you are trying to achieve and what ranges or situation you plan on shooting. My own rule is Out to 80m Pellets will be more accurate. And also cheaper to run if you are punching paper. Beyond 80m Slugs will start to out perform the Pellets in terms of bucking the wind and long range accuracy. Long range pest control? Usually the groups are not too flash at around 50m. Also Slugs like to be over 900FPS (900-1000FPS). But Beyond the 80m over 100m you will start to see the group sizes tighten over the Pellets. I am currently running the 25gr Spydas and need to finalise my tune, have had great results with them, they seem to like around 971FPS in my M3 700mm barrel.
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Posted By: flock
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2023 at 9:36pm
| Is that the FX wildcat M3? if so what is your reg setting please. |
Posted By: chopsuey
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2023 at 8:23pm
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Sorry its the Impact M3, have you got the bottle version or normal tube? They are a fantastic rifle!!! Wish i had never sold mine!! My Wildcat Mk3 also ran the 25gr Slugs but had a Huma Transfer port/Huma 30cc Power Plenum/ Huma Regulator, I could get 1000FPS from this set up but can't find my old settings. If I find them il post them up. I ran the slugs at 950FPD from memory.
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Posted By: flock
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2023 at 8:41pm
| Mine is the normal version, think the most I ever got is 45 flbs so 25ers at 900 would be lot |
Posted By: RangerPete
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2023 at 6:39pm
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Update on playing with slugs… So I’ve got the 30gr spyda slugs grouping nicely out of the .22 Dreamline. I turned the reg up from 125bar to 150bar, expecting to get more velocity out of them, but I finally managed to chronograph them today and even with the reg upped by 25bar, they are still only doing 760fps. I guess the little 500mm barell is just not long enough to get a heavy slug up into the 900’s fps. However, the groups at 25m are tight and today I zeroed it at 40m, consistently hitting a 25mm spinner at 40m with plenty of wind, so I’m going to be happy with that 👍🏻. 30gr slug, 760fps = 38.5fpe, I’ll take it. I shot a rabbit with this set up a while ago, and recovered the slug to check its performance… Shot said rabbit at about 30m. Slug entered just under the corner of the left side jaw. Raking shot and after much digging and following the trail of destruction through the rabbit, I recovered the slug on the right side, under the skin between the last rib and the hip. Went longatudinally through the neck, smashed the cerable vertabra, which is probably where it expanded against the bone, entered the thoracic cavity, went through the right lung making a mess of it, entered the abdominal cavity shredding the liver, went through the thin flap of mussel on the side and stopped u der the skin. I didn’t weigh it, but it has lost minimal weight. It has expanded to 9.4mm at its widest point. Pretty impressive performance 👍🏻   ------------- Walk quietly, but carry a big stick. |
Posted By: chopsuey
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2023 at 10:11pm
Good work Pete, if you are getting same results maybe turn your reg back down to 125Bar for more shot count and less stress on Reg!
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